F**K you Pakistan Cricket

Truly shocking and devastating, I really don't understand how you can betray the fans, country and the sport like this. This is going to put me off cricket for a while. Feel bad for broad and trott if they take away test status of the game.

Growler wrote:

skully wrote:

Henry wrote:I think the Pakistani players were trying to win the match, they just thought they could make a bit of extra cash on the side whilst doing it. They're all pretty naive, and let's be honest, not terribly well educated.

Erm, I humbly submit - fark off Trev. They couldn't give a rat's @rse about the result once they knew there were major bucks to be made for bowling a no-ball on ball 1 of over 3.

Match payments pale into insignificance when it comes to the ill-gotten gains of match-fixing.

skulls, I deliberately didn't comment last night when the story first broke - but on reflection I have to say I lean towards Trev's analysis.

I totally condemn whats happenned, but in my wildest imagination I can't see how three no-balls affects the actual result. The Paksters may well be guilty of greed, naivity and utter stupidity, but actual match fixing - I'm not convinced at all. I agree with you though - match payments are small beer compared with what's prolly offerred for cheating.

FWIW, I'd also say its near impossible for bowlers alone to ensure a match is lost - they couldn't possibly know that Jimmy & Swanny couldn't have engineered better pitches & conditions for themselves. Any other year, no matter how hard the bowlers tried to lose, there's nothing to suggest the Pakistani top order wouldn't have got them into winning positions if they were unaware of the shenanigans going on behind the scenes.

The deliberate no-balls can be proven, but appear to be just scratching the surface.

At present there is no proof of 'match-fixing' as opposed to 'spot-fixing' but given what has happened in the past it's not too long a bow to say Pakistan cricket is rife with cheats. The fixer's claims about the Sydney Test, and other matches, suggest that there have indeed been matches fixed.

The country as a whole needs to be banned from all international cricket immediately for several years.

PeterCS wrote:

The One wrote:

Jontyh wrote:And Athers has refused to do the presentation? No surprise there - sounded like he suspected something given his comments on the second of those dodgy no-balls..

maybe he just had dirty pants

What was he afraid of?

Point taken, but surreptitiously trying to rough the ball up a bit to gain an advantage for your bowlers by lining your pockets with dirt isn't in the same league as blatantly lining your pockets with bookies' cash to influence the game in favour of noone but yourself.

They can be a nice cushion if you fall over trying to slide-field the ball though.

Zat wrote:

Growler wrote:

skully wrote:

Henry wrote:I think the Pakistani players were trying to win the match, they just thought they could make a bit of extra cash on the side whilst doing it. They're all pretty naive, and let's be honest, not terribly well educated.

Erm, I humbly submit - fark off Trev. They couldn't give a rat's @rse about the result once they knew there were major bucks to be made for bowling a no-ball on ball 1 of over 3.

Match payments pale into insignificance when it comes to the ill-gotten gains of match-fixing.

skulls, I deliberately didn't comment last night when the story first broke - but on reflection I have to say I lean towards Trev's analysis.

I totally condemn whats happenned, but in my wildest imagination I can't see how three no-balls affects the actual result. The Paksters may well be guilty of greed, naivity and utter stupidity, but actual match fixing - I'm not convinced at all. I agree with you though - match payments are small beer compared with what's prolly offerred for cheating.

FWIW, I'd also say its near impossible for bowlers alone to ensure a match is lost - they couldn't possibly know that Jimmy & Swanny couldn't have engineered better pitches & conditions for themselves. Any other year, no matter how hard the bowlers tried to lose, there's nothing to suggest the Pakistani top order wouldn't have got them into winning positions if they were unaware of the shenanigans going on behind the scenes.

The deliberate no-balls can be proven, but appear to be just scratching the surface.

At present there is no proof of 'match-fixing' as opposed to 'spot-fixing' but given what has happened in the past it's not too long a bow to say Pakistan cricket is rife with cheats. The fixer's claims about the Sydney Test, and other matches, suggest that there have indeed been matches fixed.

The country as a whole needs to be banned from all international cricket immediately for several years.

While it would certainly send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated, an organisation ( ICC ) with only 10 full members can scarecely afford to bin one of them for a prolonged period, especially when it's questionable whether two members ( BAN and ZIM ) should even be full members. If PAK were to be banned from all international cricket for say 5 years, how could they come back as a Test nation worthy of the name? If the WI don't dramatically improve, we'd have 4/10 sides getting permanently whipped - with the ultimate loss of crowds, sponsorship and TV money.

I still believe that while its not impossible to fix the result of a limited overs match, but without at least 7 or 8 members of a Test side cheating, there are too many variables in Test cricket to guarantee a result either way. Just imagine .... England trying to throw the Lords Test - they were making a damn good fist of it, apart from someone forgetting to tell Trott & Broad.

Therefore, my personal inclination would be to ban the individual players ( in this instance Amir for 12 months, the other two for maybe 5 years). I'd allow Pakistan to continue playing Test matches, but not one-day matches or T20 matches for the next 5 years. That punishes the PCB financially, allows promising younger players ( under 25's ) the chance to salvage their career, does not punish the innocent as they can still play Tests, and doesn't deal Pakistani cricket ( as a sport ) a blow from which it will take years to recover.

What are your thoughts on that as middle ground between no action and outright ban ?

Can't see that Pakistan as a nation deserves to be banned. Individuals though, if proved on the take, must be banned.

And get the fat scum ICC anti-corruption team off their fat @rses and actually do something - or don't they exist anymore? Perhaps they do, but just watch porn on the ICC computers all day.

Thing is skull, the PCB flip-flop all over the place - they change their stance on player punishment the way we change our Reg Grundies.

Because it's credible for one-dayers to be manipulated, an ICC ban on the national side playing ODIs for a couple of years may shake them out of thier lethargic attitude.

Fair call, Growls. And one wonders whether this eratic behaviour has been cultivated over the years as a byproduct of dodgy dealing with bookies.

One minute the Paksters are world beaters, the next they are complete dross, and everyone shrugs and says "Yeah, those wacky Paksters." A pretty handy cover when match-fixing or spot-fixing kicks in.

The ICC did the right thing, because you know the PCB had that big broom at the ready...

Banning Pak as a whole would be ridiculous. But they need to be warned that they have to get some kind of sense, some kind of structure to their cricket.

Pakistan is a synonym for chaos so structure is impossible.

skully wrote:Pakistan is a synonym for chaos so structure is impossible.

The idiots at the PCB have to be told either way that chaos, headless running around and corruption stopped being cute long time back.

Growler wrote:

Zat wrote:At present there is no proof of 'match-fixing' as opposed to 'spot-fixing' but given what has happened in the past it's not too long a bow to say Pakistan cricket is rife with cheats. The fixer's claims about the Sydney Test, and other matches, suggest that there have indeed been matches fixed.

The country as a whole needs to be banned from all international cricket immediately for several years.

While it would certainly send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated, an organisation ( ICC ) with only 10 full members can scarecely afford to bin one of them for a prolonged period, especially when it's questionable whether two members ( BAN and ZIM ) should even be full members. If PAK were to be banned from all international cricket for say 5 years, how could they come back as a Test nation worthy of the name? If the WI don't dramatically improve, we'd have 4/10 sides getting permanently whipped - with the ultimate loss of crowds, sponsorship and TV money.

I still believe that while its not impossible to fix the result of a limited overs match, but without at least 7 or 8 members of a Test side cheating, there are too many variables in Test cricket to guarantee a result either way. Just imagine .... England trying to throw the Lords Test - they were making a damn good fist of it, apart from someone forgetting to tell Trott & Broad.

Therefore, my personal inclination would be to ban the individual players ( in this instance Amir for 12 months, the other two for maybe 5 years). I'd allow Pakistan to continue playing Test matches, but not one-day matches or T20 matches for the next 5 years. That punishes the PCB financially, allows promising younger players ( under 25's ) the chance to salvage their career, does not punish the innocent as they can still play Tests, and doesn't deal Pakistani cricket ( as a sport ) a blow from which it will take years to recover.

What are your thoughts on that as middle ground between no action and outright ban ?

How many chances have there been for individuals in the Pakistan cricket 'system'? And yet fixing still happens. Drastic action is warranted.

Cut the supply of matches, make the cricketers in that nation realise that international cricket is something to cherish, not to piss up against the wall, and it might make a difference when they return. A couple of years at least, effective ASAP, including the World Cup, ICCCCCCCCT, wt20, the whole catastrophe. And make them qualify for the next world cup against other minor nations as their only ODI matches until then.

Agreed Zat, especially about the chances given to individual players, bans overturned etc - but that's due to the internal politics within the PCB, and equally the toothless ICC having even smaller gonads than Ian Bell.

ICC bans for players (where selection by the PCB would void the match) would send the message loud and clear. I'm for a minimum of three years ban on ODI / T20 participation. As I said - I'm not so sure about Tests, a ban on all cricket punishes the honest players. Lets not forget, there are few cases actually proven, just lots of suspicion


I think the truth lies somewhere in between ...... cheating is probably more common than cases that have been proved - but not as widespread as some believe.

How bad can this get ? The "denials", "face saving" and "blaming others" is so maddening. If only PCB accepted that they have a serious problem and got to work on it then they might get more sympathy. They don't need guys like that HC. What a joke for a diplomat (?)