The Ashes thread #1 [England Bowling Edition]

[DJ_Smerk]

I love discussing the prospect of potential attacks and this is no different. With the Ashes in November, lets speculate about who will make the fold for the First Test.

What I think:

Broad
Finn
Onions (depending on his frame pulling through by November)/Flintoff/Bopara
Shahzad
Swann

What the ECB thinks:

Anderson
Broad
Finn
Shahzad
Swann

[DJ_Smerk]

You might think I'm bandwagoning with the likes of Chiv and the rest of the forum, but how much has Anderson learnt when the ball isn't swinging?

Has he learnt ANY variation? Deceiving off-cutters, yorkers, in-swingers? Or will he just bowl the swinging line on off stump and hope for the best while Ponting and co- crack onto a straight delivery which offers about as much venom as a half lager shandy with lemonade, a dash of lime, ice and water.

[spangler]

Flintoff?

[DJ_Smerk]

I must have been living in Lala land.

[Merlin]

Don't write Anderson off just yet.

The 4 quicks for Aus (subject to injury or fitness) will be/should be : Jimmy; Broadly; Huck and Sherezad, with Bressers for back up.
Forget Onions .... sadly ..... he's now clearly off the radar.

[JKLever]

I think we're going to play 4 bowlers in Aus, rightly or wrongly.because we will want a long tail. Argue all you like but its going to happen because of a) our experience playing 5 bowlers and Mahmood at 8 in 2006/7 b) because the tail was the difference bettween winning and losing in 2009 and c) because Flower likes the formula.

It'll be Anderson, Finn, Broad & Swann

I'd take Shazhad, Bresnan & Rashid too.

And yes, Anderson will be flogged on Aussie tracks - if there ever is the bowling equivalent of a FTB then Jimmykins is it.

[Gary 111]

Barring injuries England's bowling attack will be:
Anderson, Finn, Broad & Swann.

I have a feeling Steve Finn will have displaced Broad as the new ball bowler, but can't see any other changes. Shahzad is likely to tour as back-up.

Anderson will play because he has more stamina than most of our other bowlers and can swing the new ball. I too am concerned that he won't make an impact on most Australian pitches but what option do England have? Bresnan? Onions? Harmison FFS? Until Steve Finn came through our bowling stocks were very bare.

It is also worth noting that you can occasionally get a green top in Australia. The first day at the MCG on England's last tour and the first day at the SCG for Aus vs Pakistan last year are examples.

So Anderson, the Overcast Overlord may get his chance to shine.

[skully]

Finn looked OK but he was bowling to a bunch of rabbits in the spotlights. Jimmy's bowling was very impressive.

I still think either of the squads Smerkle posted looks better on paper than Aus's attack, unless Midge can find some form.

[JKLever]

Finn looked OK but he was bowling to a bunch of rabbits in the spotlights. Jimmy's bowling was very impressive.

I still think either of the squads Smerkle posted looks better on paper than Aus's attack, unless Midge can find some form.

none of the stats back that up.

Finn is a rookie who has gorged on Bangladesh, Anderson averages 34, Broad averages 36 and Swanny 30

[skully]

But I think you'll find that prior to Ashes 09 the stats were even worse, but your lads still did the job.

As I continue to say, I hope you are right, JKL.

[Zat]

Indeed, without looking up the stats from 09, weren't the bulk of the stats from during that series in Australia's favour? And the result still went the other way.

[JKLever]

Yes, and mainly from where the Aussies gorged themselves in the drawn tests. I'd say home advantage let us get away with stats like that. If we repeat those sort of figures down under its going to be another spanking.

[PeterCS]

Aye, that (along with Punter's captaincy) must have been THE frustrating thing for Oz supporters.... won almost all the stats head-to-heads, lost more than half of the key moments.

[Growler]

You might think I'm bandwagoning with the likes of Chiv and the rest of the forum, but how much has Anderson learnt when the ball isn't swinging?

Has he learnt ANY variation? Deceiving off-cutters, yorkers, in-swingers? Or will he just bowl the swinging line on off stump and hope for the best while Ponting and co- crack onto a straight delivery which offers about as much venom as a half lager shandy with lemonade, a dash of lime, ice and water.

Smerkle - you, like so many others are writing Anderson off too soon. No, he didn't tear trees up in 2006/07 down there .... but then again, considering he played one Test in India , and one 4-dayer for Lancs plus a handful of one dayers due to the stress fracture he sufferred that year, is that such a surprise?

It's been said, over and over by various commentators, that Anderson is a bowler who needs the overs under his belt to be at his best. Of the current XI, he was the first to be capped, but has only played 49 out of a possible 96 Tests. Strauss, Colly and KP who all debuted later have all played more Tests. Fletcher played him an odd game here and there for years, alternating with drinks carrying - then wondering why the bowler has no rhythm having not played for a month I've lost count of the times his being 12th man has been questioned by the likes of Geoffrey Boycott musing why he's not playing county cricket if England won't bowl him.

Given plenty of bowling against Pakistan, Anderson will do OK in Australia. I'd still be more worried about Finn/Bresnan/Shazhad ........ Tamim Iqbal is the only batsman worth the name they've bowled at in Test matches - let's see how they cope if Watson & Katich decide to climb into them from the off, and come back on later having had a nice day chasing the ball under a hot sun.

[skully]

Yes, and mainly from where the Aussies gorged themselves in the drawn tests. I'd say home advantage let us get away with stats like that. If we repeat those sort of figures down under its going to be another spanking.

Yup. Aus is generally still performing OK statistically but we aren't doing what the sides from the pre-TGM/tgm/Gilly retirement era did - win the big moments in the Test. We have far too often (including in Ashes 05) lost a crucial session during a Test, which has ultimately lead to a loss, or failure to secure the win.