Iggy Pop upsets 2 subis

taipan wrote:I never said it was okay.

But the fact remains that only 2 people out of millions complained, thereby underlining the insignificance.

Pfft, Iggy Pop's a non-event. I'd be surprised if there were more than 10,000 watching...

Phurt...

Old goat aged past it rocker in a shocking comment on TV shock...

It's not hard to say 'corner shop' AFAIC.

Depends. Our rugby administrators can't even say "Well done."

tac wrote:TBH, while I understand it is offensive in Britain, I still don't get it. Aussie, Saffie, Kiwi, Subi . . . ???

It is because in the UK, during the dreadful 70s, the word P***, which could be considered a shortened descriptive term, was used as a word of hate (and I am not over-emphasising by using the word hate.)

You f***ing P*** would be a common term.

I don't know if at the very beginning the N word was a relatively neutral word, derived from Negro, meaning black; but now both terms, because of the correct association with appalling abuse are now considered abusive, racist terms (although I think Negro may still be used properly in anthropology to differentiate races, but I may be wrong on that.)

The use of the word P*** in the UK will grate horribly on any right-minded individual because of the fact it has had a deeply racist use.

Strangely though, the term P***-Shop is not necessarily as offensive (although that is arguable.) The term may be used in a more ironic way to refer to the plethora of corner shops, owned by Asians (many of whom are not Pakistani) who worked every hour God sends and on which almost everyone in the country has relied on at some time (munchies at midnight anyone?)

The Asian band Corner-Shop called themselves that in a similarly ironic manner I would say.

The fact that the term refers to a phenomenon, rather than an individual, and has been used ironically in the UK may account for the paltry number of complaints. I would not be surprised if the 2 complaints were from sandal-wearing PC whiteys rather than Asians.

The use of the term by the drug-addled brain of Iggy smacks of ignorance. It would be best not to use the term.

It would be interesting to hear the view of any British Asian on this board, but i am not sure we have any. If I am wrong on what I have said I would happily stand corrected.

In South Africa "the Greek (or Portuguese) on the corner" is a well-known phenomenon, as far as I know not offensive - but it may become nowadays, as many of them are now more likely to become lawyers and doctors than take over Daddy's corner shop.

In Australia, most towns had a Greek fish and chip shop.

doctorspin wrote:

tac wrote:TBH, while I understand it is offensive in Britain, I still don't get it. Aussie, Saffie, Kiwi, Subi . . . ???

It is because in the UK, during the dreadful 70s, the word P***, which could be considered a shortened descriptive term, was used as a word of hate (and I am not over-emphasising by using the word hate.)

You f***ing P*** would be a common term.

I don't know if at the very beginning the N word was a relatively neutral word, derived from Negro, meaning black; but now both terms, because of the correct association with appalling abuse are now considered abusive, racist terms (although I think Negro may still be used properly in anthropology to differentiate races, but I may be wrong on that.)

The use of the word P*** in the UK will grate horribly on any right-minded individual because of the fact it has had a deeply racist use.

Strangely though, the term P***-Shop is not necessarily as offensive (although that is arguable.) The term may be used in a more ironic way to refer to the plethora of corner shops, owned by Asians (many of whom are not Pakistani) who worked every hour God sends and on which almost everyone in the country has relied on at some time (munchies at midnight anyone?)

The Asian band Corner-Shop called themselves that in a similarly ironic manner I would say.

The fact that the term refers to a phenomenon, rather than an individual, and has been used ironically in the UK may account for the paltry number of complaints. I would not be surprised if the 2 complaints were from sandal-wearing PC whiteys rather than Asians.

The use of the term by the drug-addled brain of Iggy smacks of ignorance. It would be best not to use the term.

It would be interesting to hear the view of any British Asian on this board, but i am not sure we have any. If I am wrong on what I have said I would happily stand corrected.

Thanks for that, doctorspin. BTW, former forummer fluffy is a British pakster.

Makaveli and Ash are both British Asians (AFAIK).

I don't know if at the very beginning the N word was a relatively neutral word, derived from Negro, meaning black; but now both terms, because of the correct association with appalling abuse are now considered abusive, racist terms (although I think Negro may still be used properly in anthropology to differentiate races, but I may be wrong on that.)

Some summarised information from Bill Bryson's Made in America:

N****r first appeared in print in 1587 and was, at first, just a variant of the preferred term, negro. Until the 1880s, "blacks' or "coloreds" were preferred. In 1909 a black human rights group decided that Negro - now capitalised - should replace the above terms. Black made a comeback in the 60s and soon replaced Negro. Since then, there's been African American, to name just one...

mynah wrote:

I don't know if at the very beginning the N word was a relatively neutral word, derived from Negro, meaning black; but now both terms, because of the correct association with appalling abuse are now considered abusive, racist terms (although I think Negro may still be used properly in anthropology to differentiate races, but I may be wrong on that.)

Some summarised information from Bill Bryson's Made in America:

N****r first appeared in print in 1587 and was, at first, just a variant of the preferred term, negro. Until the 1880s, "blacks' or "coloreds" were preferred. In 1909 a black human rights group decided that Negro - now capitalised - should replace the above terms. Black made a comeback in the 60s and soon replaced Negro. Since then, there's been African American, to name just one...

Thanks for that, I would consider Bryson a reliable source. So it seems that the N word and P*** have had sort of analogous routes into taboo through their adoption by racists.

And Tac, I forgot about Filo, she would certainly be qualified to comment, but her responses to a thread involving certain forummers may skew her slant somewhat. A British version of Furry, or Doremi (as long as Agarkar is not involved) may be considered more reliable.

When I played cricket regularly, it was in a club that had a majority of Asian members, so I could have asked them. But I'm not playing at the moment, and in any case, the cricket club was never the best place for serious discussion.

They would call eachother P*** and didn't object if the likes of me did, but that was from a position of being good friends and them knowing that you did not hold racist views and were an all-round good bloke. Had to reciprocate by allowing them to call me a f***** Yid so quid pro quo and all that. As they were mainly muslim it seemed the perfect model for solving the Middle-East problems. I'll get on to Tony Blair straight away.

Also, it is interesting to note, that in the 60s, coloured was a term used for Black people, but then during the 70s to date, the term coloured became a big no-no as Black people rejected it and at best saw its use as arising from ignorance. Not sure what that was about entirely, but I think it was in part due to rising Black pride and a desire to embrace being black and thus reject a term that smacked of being a euphemism.

This applies to UK and USA. I imagine it is different in SA where the terms also had official meanings for the purpose of catagorising and segregating.

doctorspin wrote:Strangely though, the term P***-Shop is not necessarily as offensive (although that is arguable.) The term may be used in a more ironic way to refer to the plethora of corner shops, owned by Asians (many of whom are not Pakistani) who worked every hour God sends and on which almost everyone in the country has relied on at some time (munchies at midnight anyone?)

It is only personal opinion and I'm not particularly a sandal-wearing PC whitey but I see it as just as ignorant. As you've mentioned, they're not necessarily of Pakistani origin - for instance I heard some meathead call 'Bangla Bazaar' the 'P***-Shop'. I mean, if you're not being an ignorant d!ck-sucker there what are you being?

The happy-clappy connotation of the word is as bad as the hate-filled bile that many a scumbag used to spit out.

Same principles as the Symonds/ Monkey business. I'm surprised people are surpised that it can be a derogatory word.

Batfink Begins wrote:

doctorspin wrote:Strangely though, the term P***-Shop is not necessarily as offensive (although that is arguable.) The term may be used in a more ironic way to refer to the plethora of corner shops, owned by Asians (many of whom are not Pakistani) who worked every hour God sends and on which almost everyone in the country has relied on at some time (munchies at midnight anyone?)

It is only personal opinion and I'm not particularly a sandal-wearing PC whitey but I see it as just as ignorant. As you've mentioned, they're not necessarily of Pakistani origin - for instance I heard some meathead call 'Bangla Bazaar' the 'P***-Shop'. I mean, if you're not being an ignorant d!ck-sucker there what are you being?

The happy-clappy connotation of the word is as bad as the hate-filled bile that many a scumbag used to spit out.

I don't disagree with you on the whole. I was partly trying to explain why only 2 complaints were received.

Whilst ignorance in this area is potentially very dangerous, I wouldn't necessarily quite equate it with those who spew hate-filled bile. Maybe someone (preferably NOT Tac or anyone by the Big Dazza nom de plume)) can pop over to PakPassion and ask Filo.

doctorspin wrote:It is because in the UK, during the dreadful 70s, the word P***, which could be considered a shortened descriptive term, was used as a word of hate (and I am not over-emphasising by using the word hate.)

The use of the word P*** in the UK will grate horribly on any right-minded individual because of the fact it has had a deeply racist use.

Funnily enough I heard the words 'paki shop' during an episode of 'Only Fools And Horses' only last week. Used in that context it is not a racist comment, end of. I mean, how can it be a racist comment when half the time the 'paki shop' in question is own by an Indian?

Furthermore, I find the condemnation of Mr Pop by certain posters on this thread quite pathetic. Unaware of all this British PC bollocks Pakistanis living miles away in Australia freely use the word 'Paki' to describe themselves and their fellow countrymen, so how the f**k is an American living on the other side of the Atlantic supposed to know about it's derogatory British meaning?

Why people feel obliged to jump on the nearest soapbox and spout sanctimonious bollocks in the aftermath of something as insignificant as this is beyond my comprehension.