Judging by stata GoJo wasn't that bad

by taipan on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 10:03

Player Span Mat Inns Dis Ct St Max Dis Inns Dis/Inn
GO Jones (Eng) 2004-2006 34 66 133 128 5 6 (6ct 0st) 2.015

by Basil on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 10:15

The reputation of former or dropped players always seems to improve the longer they are out of the side - you can see it here with the odd siren voice singing Harmy's praises.

GoJo? - sorry, no - the poor man's Prior by the time he was given the elbow.

by Gary 111 on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 10:21

Dismissals per match is a poor way to judge wicket keeper - its the chances they miss which is important.

Geraint Jones was lucky enough to play his career in a successful team with the fab 4 on top form. So loads of chances - most of which he caught but a largeish proportion (for a top class keeper) were dropped.

Gilchrist and Boucher also I bet have high dismissals per match ratios - because they've had a career with high class bowlers creating chances for them. Doesn't mean they were better keepers than the likes of Taylor, Knott and Healy though.

by PlanetPakistan on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 10:25

then don't judge him by stats.

by Gary 111 on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 10:32

If you can quantify the number of chances missed then stats are very useful - I like this table produced by Wisden and posted previously by Big Bad Bob, as it is one of the first attempts to quantify the wicket keepers overall value to the team. It suggests the silky glovesmen (e.g. Stewart and Read, are much more valuable than the iron gloves but good with the bat variety - e.g. Prior). Which confirms my suspicions, and is why recalling Prior would be sheer lunacy!

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

Per a Wisden Cricketer article this month, the net worth of the respective England keepers to their side over the last 7 years: -

Credit Crunch - Tests since 2001-02

Tests Byes Conceded Runs cost in missed chances Avge runs cost per Test Batting average Net figure
______________Tests__Byes____Runs cost__Av Runs cost___Bat Av____Net figure

Alec Stewart____18____142_____115_______14.28_________41.41_____27.13
Chris Read_____12_____29_____10_________3.25_________21.46_____18.21
Tim Ambrose____6_____43_____48________15.17_________30.44_____15.27
Geraint Jones___34____278_____296_______16.88_________23.91_____7.03
James Foster____7_____47_____84_________18.71_________25.11_____6.4
Matt Prior______10_____142____485________62.7__________40.14____-22.56

Now this table isn't perfect - it doesn't credit the keepers for chances held, or rate the difficulty of chances taken or missed - but at least its a start and the analysis is of a much higher quality than simple dismissals per match ratios.

by vilkrang on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 10:39

Gary 111 wrote:If you can quantify the number of chances missed then stats are very useful - I like this table produced by Wisden and posted previously by Big Bad Bob, as it is one of the first attempts to quantify the wicket keepers overall value to the team. It suggests the silky glovesmen (e.g. Stewart and Read, are much more valuable than the iron gloves but good with the bat variety - e.g. Prior). Which confirms my suspicions, and is why recalling Prior would be sheer lunacy!

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

Per a Wisden Cricketer article this month, the net worth of the respective England keepers to their side over the last 7 years: -

Credit Crunch - Tests since 2001-02

Tests Byes Conceded Runs cost in missed chances Avge runs cost per Test Batting average Net figure
______________Tests__Byes____Runs cost__Av Runs cost___Bat Av____Net figure

Alec Stewart____18____142_____115_______14.28_________41.41_____27.13
Chris Read_____12_____29_____10_________3.25_________21.46_____18.21
Tim Ambrose____6_____43_____48________15.17_________30.44_____15.27
Geraint Jones___34____278_____296_______16.88_________23.91_____7.03
James Foster____7_____47_____84_________18.71_________25.11_____6.4
Matt Prior______10_____142____485________62.7__________40.14____-22.56

Now this table isn't perfect - it doesn't credit the keepers for chances held, or rate the difficulty of chances taken or missed - but at least its a start and the analysis is of a much higher quality than simple dismissals per match ratios.

God, how I miss Alec Stewart...

by beamer on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 10:42

Jones was picked as a batting keeper, he did get a lot of criticism for his keeping at times but in the end he was dropped because he forgot how to bat. If he had still been averaging 35 then he would probably have kept his place.

by Gary 111 on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 10:52

beamer wrote:Jones was picked as a batting keeper, he did get a lot of criticism for his keeping at times but in the end he was dropped because he forgot how to bat. If he had still been averaging 35 then he would probably have kept his place.

Bizarrely as well, as he forgot how to bat in those last 10 tests he suddenly learned how to keep wicket. His keeping in those final 10 tests was excellent.

by Guest on Thu 24 Jul 2008, 03:46

He was good in partnership with Flintoff.
Helped get us out of a hole a few times.

by THICKEDGE on Thu 24 Jul 2008, 04:29

The tall man/short man partnership often works well. Ambrose should be florishing batting amongst Pieterson, Broad and now Flintoff.

by PeterCS on Thu 24 Jul 2008, 04:40

Compared to Stalin, Ittler, Pol Pot, Attila The Hun, Mugabe, Idi Amin, Vlad The Impaler and Annibal Lecter (put together), GOJo was quite good.

by taipan on Thu 24 Jul 2008, 10:14

I always thought Ittler's keeping was a bit on the dodgy side.

by Zat on Thu 24 Jul 2008, 14:43

Aye, he couldn't go on with the job when on the attack either. He'd do the groundwork for an all-conquering innings, but when the going got tough, it was like he holed up at the non-strikers end away from the action.

by PeterCS on Fri 25 Jul 2008, 04:05

I didn't like that way he signalled for a drink. either. Sort of arrogant.

by ten years after on Fri 25 Jul 2008, 13:50

Gary 111 wrote:
Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

Per a Wisden Cricketer article this month, the net worth of the respective England keepers to their side over the last 7 years: -

Credit Crunch - Tests since 2001-02

Tests Byes Conceded Runs cost in missed chances Avge runs cost per Test Batting average Net figure
______________Tests__Byes____Runs cost__Av Runs cost___Bat Av____Net figure

Alec Stewart____18____142_____115_______14.28_________41.41_____27.13
Chris Read_____12_____29_____10_________3.25_________21.46_____18.21
Tim Ambrose____6_____43_____48________15.17_________30.44_____15.27
Geraint Jones___34____278_____296_______16.88_________23.91_____7.03
James Foster____7_____47_____84_________18.71_________25.11_____6.4
Matt Prior______10_____142____485________62.7__________40.14____-22.56

Now this table isn't perfect - it doesn't credit the keepers for chances held, or rate the difficulty of chances taken or missed - but at least its a start and the analysis is of a much higher quality than simple dismissals per match ratios.

This table doesn't work as a test of a keeper's ability (and it doesn't claim to do that), though i agree it is a step in the right direction.

For all i can tell from this, Prior's score of 485 in the 'runs cost' column could be entirely due to the only two catches he dropped whereas Chris Read's score of 10 could be the result of a dozen dropped catches.

Judging by stata GoJo wasn't that bad

Judging by stata GoJo wasn't that bad

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