Is this Pakistan's greatest accomplishment in test cricket?

This youngster thinks so....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/552459.html

Prior to this triumph, Pakistan's greatest Test accomplishments were measured in individual matches, such as The Oval 1954, Sydney 1977, or Georgetown 1988 - each a unique and emphatic memory, but each also part of a drawn series. Even the landmark series wins in India and England in 1987, both inaugural and historic, came through single wins, in Bangalore and Headingley. Overpowering a premier and glittering outfit like England by three straight wins to none in the Middle East now surpasses all that has come before it.

I would have to agree...

Even during the 1999 tour of India(which wasn't mentioned by the author) there was a test defeat in Delhi. This series on the other hand was a flawless performance.

Well it depends if you classify it as cricket or baseball.

I think the effort should not be underrated. Afterall, it was achieved away from home, against the no. 1 Test side, not long after the team was reduced to a rabble (well I guess they are always rabble ) after the spot-fixing affair.

Fantastic effort not picked by anyone, and worthy of being ranked with Pakistan greatest cricket achievements. Congrats again to them.

Well it depends if you classify it as cricket or baseball.

Baseball.

The Chucker took 24 wickets over 3 matches - which works out to 4 England wickets per innings.

Go figure.
If that's considered an achievement, then so is the boil on my arse.

It's a good achievement, but I think at least the WI series should be held aloft higher... at least then you weren't playing batting minnows.

I don't think you could compare the present Pakistan side with the team Imran led in the late '80s or the opposition they faced. Pakistan defeated England twice by an innings in 8 straight Tests home and away and that was after England had returned from an away Ashes victory.

Pakistan then defeated the mighty Windies on their home soil by 9 wickets in Curtly Ambrose's debut Test and only narrowly lost the Bridgetown match with the Windies 8 down needing 266. They then comprehensively defeated Australia at home by an innings (although that was with Miandad in charge) and this four years before their 1992 WC triumph, which will remain the high-point of Pakistani cricket for some time to come (or until they win it again).

The Pakistan of the 1980s was a great side with great players including Imran, Miandad, Salim Malik, Abdul Qadir and Iqbal Qasim. The present team is a good and improving side that may develop into a great one. To put their performance against a complacent team, ill-prepared for the conditions, who have not had to face any spinner of note since the retirements of Warne and Murali in the same league is, quite frankly, ludicrous.

Yeah, I think you've got that spot on Allan. Although it begs the question whether your post greatens the magnitude of this 3-0 shelling.

Though as my post says, they were only wrecking minnows.

Still, whitewashing the number 1 team is noteworthy. This will look better on paper some years hence than it actually was.

Definitely, it's no mean feat. I expect it looks like I'm belittling it, but it's quite a spectacular result.

Brass Monkey wrote:Definitely, it's no mean feat. I expect it looks like I'm belittling it, but it's quite a spectacular result.

But not an unprecedented one. The Ashes triumph of 1977 was followed by 3 draws in Pakistan and the Kiwis' first ever victory over England after shooting us out for 64. The 1981 Ashes triumph was followed by a 1-0 defeat in India. The 1985 Ashes triumph was followed by a whitewash against the Windies away and home series defeats to both India and Pakistan. The 1986-7 Ashes victory was followed by 2 innings defeats and 6 draws against Pakistan followed by 4 defeats (and 4 captains) at home to the Windies. Every time we win the Ashes sackcloth follows in its wake as surely as night follows day. Also, being No.1 side in the world may not necessarily mean you're a great side it might also mean everyone else is rubbish. Pakistan are just going through one of their occasional phases of not being rubbish to England's obvious discomfort and I, for one, unpatriotic though it may be, heartily approve.

I too am not looking for excuses nor belittling the Paks "achievement" - but lets look at specifics :

1. England were grossly undercooked - having played their previous test 4 months earlier in chilly climes against India at the Oval.
2. They were constantly playing to a gallery of 150 spectators in 30C heat in echo-ing stadiums.
3. They self-induced their mesmerisation of finger spin and, because of the limited period allowed, adaptation was proven to be inadequate - so the bad batting habits continued.
4. Under normal cricketing conditions (other than on the plains of the desert), would the ball have revved, bounced and turned sharply one day and slowly the next .... I have my doubts.
5. Twenty four wickets were taken in the series by a person who bowls with his elbow at angles exceeding the "accepted" 15 degrees - 23.5 degrees actually - and basically a blatant chucker.
6. The number of LBW's - what was it something like 12 per match ? - specifically enhanced by the DRS system - made batting even more of a nightmare to batsmen who were already struggling.
7. England were however, grossly let down by both Belf and Morgan - who, under normal circumstances, would have been good enough for at least 25 to 30 runs apiece per innings - which, when computing this, would have made the first and the third tests a lot closer than the winning margins of 71 and 72 runs respectively.


Yes, it was a good series win by Pakistan - shellacking perhaps in some quarters - but, putting it all into perspective, not as much of a disaster as the series has been made out to be.

However, to set aside against that, the 4-man bowling attack which included a player omitted for 2 1/2 years, performed remarkably well with the Younis-Azhar partnership in the last match the only significant blot. Broad made a remarkable return from injury and Panesar outshone Swann, who was the least of the quartet.

It was the batting, the mainstay of the summer and of the Ashes victory, which was the major letdown with experienced players such as Bell (as well as Strauss and Cook) unable to pick even moderately turning balls. Whether this was just due to a loss of form or just players who don't travel well remains to be seen but a good deal of blame has to rest with the management for not picking a side to suit the conditions and choosing players on the basis of past performance rather than current form.

Merlin wrote:
I too am not looking for excuses nor belittling the Paks "achievement" - but lets look at specifics :

........

Yes, it was a good series win by Pakistan - shellacking perhaps in some quarters - but, putting it all into perspective, not as much of a disaster as the series has been made out to be.

It was a stone cold beat down of a massive magnitude.
An absolute mollywhopping.
We couldn't have bent over, taken a pounding (and be forced to say we like it) more.
It was a humiliating and humbling experience.
Frankly the final series scoreline should've been obvious from about two to three hours into the first day of the first Test.
It was pathetically weak, both in their entire batting approach and in the defeatist attitude that followed that first innings of 190.
It was a totally wretched performance on any scale, with any mitigating circumstances.
Disaster is a good word for it. If it was a disaster film, it would multipy The Poseidon Adventure, Towering Inferno, 2012 and The Day After Tomorrow together and fatted it up on steroids.
It matched the shame of the Ashes 06/07 and possibly surpassed it.
It was woeful.... just simply awful and I didn't get one minute of pleasure watching any of the 30+ hours of coverage I watched. Not. One. Minute.
I'm astonished that watching such an absolute abortion could be called my 'hobby'.
It was an absolutely meek disgrace.
Pathetic.